Discussion of the Franklin's Tale
Choose one of the four study questions, and post your response as a comment to this post. Write at least a full paragraph, and be sure to cite at least one passage in the text to support the point you are making. Then, read at least one other student's post and add a specific response to that post that engages with their idea (in other words, don't just say, "I agree.") Let's get a good discussion of the Franklin's Tale going. I will be in Kalamazoo, but will check the blog by Friday and add some comments over the weekend.
Please respond to one of the four questions give out in class.
ReplyDeleteThe Franklin’s Tale Discussion Question #2
ReplyDeleteDiscuss the inter-textual discussion of love and marriage in the Canterbury Tales. Compare the Wife of Bath’s Tale with the Franklin’s Tale on the subject of marriage. What are the different messages each tale gives?
Each of the tales we have read so far has been a story of love and marriage. Chaucer has described these using historical references and contemporary (to him) stories. They have provided commentary on social class, power, and gender disparity. Chaucer has described different states of love, marriage, and sex, showing men and women as perpetrators and victims of each other and their socially prescribed roles.
In the Wife of Bath’s Tale, the Knight begins by seeing a maiden (virgin) whom he is attracted to and rapes her immediately. Man want, man take. There is no concern for the woman’s rights or choice in the matter. Indeed, she is never heard from in the story again unless she is the old hag who becomes the wife at the end of the story as some speculate. The Knight learns from this old woman that what women want most are sovereignty, power and choice in their own lives. She forces him to marry her for providing this information. He is distraught but later rewarded with a beautiful, young woman for granting sovereignty to his new wife. They live happily ever after.
On the other hand, in the Franklin’s Tale, Dorigen also says that women want power: “Wommen of kinde desiren libertee” (line 768). The Knight, Arveragus, pursues a noble lady, Dorigen. He shows humility and obedience to her until she decides to marry him secretly because of the class/status difference I presume. He promises never to be her master and she promises never to do anything to cause them strife: “Ye profre me to have so large a reyne, Ne wolde nevere God betwixt us tweyne, As in my gilt, were outher were or stryf.” (Kolve, lines 755-57). So what does she go and do? Dorigen makes a flirty promise to Aurelius the Squire that leads to strife within their marriage. When the Knight, described “As he that was of chivalrye the flour,” (line 1088), finds out what she has done, he tells her she should honor her promise. He upholds his end of the bargain but she does not. Both are rewarded though for honesty to Aurelius, and he releases her from her promise. He in turn is rewarded as well when his debt to the magician is forgiven. And chivalry wins the day.
In both tales the ultimate lesson is that marriage should be an equal partnership with neither having control over the other. In the Wife’s Tale though, the marriage begins with rape and dishonesty. In the Franklin’s Tale, the marriage is based on love and trust from the start. Both tales end with the couples living happily ever after.
The word “gentillesse” in its various forms appears first in the Franklin’s Tale when introducing the knight and his wife. In this sense, the word refers to kindness and fidelity in a marital relationship. Dorigene praises her husband for his “gentillesse” for granting her “so large a reyne” in their marriage (FT 754-5). This refers to Arveragus’s pledge to stay forever faithful to Dorigene and to allow her the sovereignty prized so highly in the Wife of Bath’s Tale. Later in the Franklin’s tale, gentillesse assumes a broader meaning when it extends from the lovers’ marital relationship to the interpersonal relationships between all four characters in the tale.
ReplyDeleteGentillesse reappears late in the tale when Aurelius, the squire, relieves Dorigene of her duty to marry him and, again, it is used to describe Arveragus. When Aurelius releases Dorigene from their accord, he does so on account of Arveragus’s “grete gentillesse” and claims that doing otherwise (i.e. holding Dorigene to her pledge) would be “Agayns franchyse [generosity] and alle gentillesse” (1527; 1524). Thus, gentillesse relates to both self-sacrifice (in the knight’s case) and mercy when juxtaposed to the squire’s right to demand that Dorigene uphold her end of their agreement. At the end of his speech, Aurelius applies the virtue to himself as well, saying, “Thus can a squyer doon a gentil dede / As well as can a knight, withouten drede [doubt]” (1543-44), and with this line he extends the definition of the word even further to transcend the bonds of rank and class.
In the final turn of the Franklin’s Tale, the philosophre evokes the ideal of gentillesse when he reflects on each individual’s actions after Aurelius relates their story, but he also applies it to himself in the same way Aurelius did in the previous scene. In this we see all of the myriad meanings of the word in full use. When the philosophre tells Aurelius that “Everich of yow dide gentilly til other” (1608), he not only uses the word in the sense that it means mercy and self-sacrifice, but also with regard to Dorigene’s fidelity to both her husband and her word. Finally, he fully disregards the class distinction implicit in the term when he applies it to himself: “But if a clerk coude doon a gentil dede / As wel as any of yow, it is no drede!” (1611-12). Here we see that gentillesse is not a virtue reserved solely for the nobility. Rather, it applies to all of those who operate out of kindness and fidelity in their relationships with others, but also with mercy and self-sacrifice when it is gentil to do so.
First I am going to respond to Robin's response to the question she answered, then I will post mine.
ReplyDeleteI have a really hard time trying to take what Chaucer writes seriously, everything about his writing points me to the idea that it's all just a big joke. I think Chaucer is an incredibly smart man, so don't get me wrong, he totally bigs up profound topics intentionally or not. However in the Franklin's tale and in regards to what Robin is talking about with the Knight saying he won't be Dorigen's master, and how Dorigen won't cause her husband, who is a knight any strife. I see Chaucer making fun of that proposel, with saying the man, the husband, who is in fact knight will not have sovereignty over his own wife. That was something very taboo for man to do and if consider, let alone from a knight. The only women that could receive some equality in those regards would have been very high noble woman. Again I think Chaucer is a very smart man; he creates these elaborate tales that have these prvoking and profound notions within them, but after all that is said, it seems in the end he is making fun of those notions. With regards to marrige in thee two tales the gender that really seems to come out on top and with authority is the male character. Chaucer seems to propose these consumtions about women in regards to ways they are not supposed to act, because those are attributes more towards mean, yet int he end of these tales he has the women act and behave in the manor they are supposed to in Chaucer's time.
The question I will be looking at is question #4 which states "How does the Franklin define gentilesse? Is it a function of a social class? What are its attributes?"
The Franklin defines 'gentilesse" as this sense of nobleness: "Madame, seyth to your lord Arveragus, that sith I see his grete gentillesse to yow, and eek I see wel your distresse, that him were levere han shame (and that were routhe)," (Kolve, lines 1525-29), almost in a way similar to the notion of purity; at least in the way of staying true to the way a person defines themselves. As stated up above, Aurelius is saying just that about Arveragus, yet the Franklin (Chaucer) is also saying that this notion of "gentillesse" isn't just about being true and noble through the actions of oneself, but also being able to recognize that "gentillesse in others; "Sire, I release thee thy thousand pound, as thou right now ere cropen out of the ground, ne never er now ne haddest knowen me. For sire, I wol nat take a peny of thee." (lines 1613-16) Aurelius recognized that "gentillesse" and in doing so he was reworded with a happy ending as well.
Is this notion of "gentilesse" a function of social class, it seems it is not, however Chaucer wants the characters in this tale to believe it is, "This philosophere answerde, Leave brother, everich of yow dide gentilly til other. Thou art a squyer, and he is a knight; but God forbede, for his blisful might, but if a clerk coude doeen a gentil dede as wel as any of yow, it is no drede!"
Again for the attibutes of "gentillesse" at least from the Franklin, is the ability to stay true the actions and words that someone defines with themselves by, and the ability to recognize the notion of "gentillesse" in others.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteQuestion Two: Is Dorigen’s marriage ideal? She is both courtly lady and wife. Are these roles compatible?
ReplyDeleteThe roles that Dorigen possesses are perfect for her. She was born into the court, and expects all the comforts that it affords her. In Chaucer’s time, court life emphasized the perfect marriage and, more importantly, the perfect wife. Dorigen loves her husband unconditionally, is faithful to him alone, and reveals all because she loves him too much. She is helpless to her husband’s wishes, despite his promise
That nevere in al his lyf he, day ne night,
Ne sholde upon him take no maistrye
Agayn hir wil, ne kythe hire jalousye,
But hir obeye and folwe hir wil in al
As any lovere to his shal-
Save that the name of soveraynetee,
That wolde he have for shame of his degree (p213, 746-752)
To the modern woman or man, these roles seem completely incompatible because of the stress involved. No person could ever be the perfect wife, let alone follow the proprieties at all times. As it is, Dorigen slips when she promises Aurelius that she will sleep with him when all the rocks in the harbor disappear. In Dorigen’s world, however, these roles aren’t separate. They are one, complete and seamless, much like her wedded bliss to her husband. Therefore, I can only say that these two roles are meant to complement each other, making the perfect wife.
Dorigen’s marriage is also perfect for her. Her husband loves her, and makes a promise to honor her and treat her like an equal. This takes me back to the Wife of Bath’s tale, of which the moral was to allow the wife control of authority. This alone makes her marriage better than most. Not only is the promise made, but it is made honestly as we see when Averagus allow his wife to complete her promise to Aurelius. His promise to “obeye and folwe hir wil in al” nearly kills him, but he fulfills it anyway. Not only is Dorigen’s marriage ideal, but her role as courtly lady and wife are complete with her love for Averagus. She was made for both roles in her time, and she fulfills her promise to be his “humble trewe wyf,” of which is her chief concern throughout the story till the end of her life (p214, 758).
Bryan Schwab
ReplyDeleteResponse to question #3 (courtly love)
Rather than encouraging spiritual fulfillment outside of marriage, which characterizes courtly love, The Franklin’s Tale tends to favor fidelity to marriage partners. The knight Arveragus labors for his lady Dorigen and they wed very early in the tale. A court is mentioned only as a reason to keep up certain appearances. Later, with Arveragus absent, Dorigen immediately replies to Aurelius’s “peynes smerte” of love for her by saying, “Ne shal I nevere been untrewe wyf / In word ne werk, as fer as I have wit” (line 984). While “untrewe werks” in the tradition of courtly love did not tend to include sex, secret liaisons would likely fit the definition. “Untrewe words” were surely in constant need for arranging and protecting courtly love, although what counted as unfaithfulness in speech might have been easily rationalized. Dorigen’s qualification that she would never be unfaithful “as fer as [she] have wit” is therefore important here. She has been so distraught by the absence of Arveragus that her friends have tried to distract her with “pleye” in a garden (905). Dorigen’s wit is perhaps not as steady as it might have been. She is preoccupied by the rocks along the coast of Brittany that might endanger Arveragus’s return to her. And so, in this garden atmosphere of “pley” (988), she attempts to dispel the anxiety of Arveragus's absence as well as Aurelius’s presence by using seemingly unfaithful words: if Aurelius will remove the rocks, Dorigen will accept his love. The situation is “inpossible” because either Aurelius will fail, perhaps leaving Dorigen with a dead husband and a failed suitor, or Aurelius will succeed, saving Arveragus yet removing him as her husband. The Franklin’s Tale exploits the impossibility of courtly love, which seems necessary to its spiritual dimension, to protect the married rather than the marriage. Fear for Arveragus's life overwhelms Dorigen fear for her marriage.
Aurelius’s feelings are much more suited to traditional courtly love, although his fitness for it is illusory. He is not a knight yet but a squire, and while he is handsome and strong, he seems to have more experience with singing than with battle. Although the Franklin’s fellow pilgrims cannot have “heard” it, Chaucer’s description of the pilgrim squire in The General Prologue influences the character of Aurelius’s as a squire. While the pilgrim squire is “fresh as is the month of May” (GP 92), Aurelius is “fressher” than that same month (FT 927). The description may be a commonplace (and good for rhyming), but it seems likely that Chaucer wishes to draw a direct comparison for the reader between the two squires. If Aurelius is “fressher” in this one respect, perhaps he excels in others. The pilgrim squire hopes to “stonden in his lady grace” (GP 88) despite his inexperience, yet his many sleepless nights indicate that he is less dedicated to her than he could be. Aurelius seems more dedicated to Dorigen, pining away as he does for two years in sole devotion. When Chaucer describes the pilgrim squire as “Curteys…lowly, and servisable” (GP 99), perhaps Aurelius is meant to outdo him here as well. As it happens, Aurelius is not very heroic in the way he performs his quest. Rather than relying on his strength, he merely begs the gods to help him hide the rocks. When that fails, he languishes for two years until his brother suggests a magician. In other words, Aurelius buys an illusion to win Dorigen in much the same way he has bought into the illusion of courtly love. When it comes time to collect on Dorigen’s promise, Aurelius’s excellent courtesy, humility and service prevent him from breaking up real love as well as marriage. In his tale, the franklin seems to be saying that courtly love is an illusion that can and should be dispelled. In the spirit of gentilesse, even the magician sees the worthlessness of illusions when the true love of married people is at stake.
Response to Bryan's comment on courtly love:
ReplyDeleteI think you've touched upon the main aspect of this story, which is the emphasis on respect, love, and honoring your troth. The Franklin's Tale is a direct response to the Squire's Tale, of which I have not read but presume that it is an exaltation on the ideal courtly love. The Love Triangle contained in the story (Dorigen, Aurelius, and Avergus) all contain what is considered appropriate for courtly love; Dorigen's swooning and melancholy for Avergus while he was away, Aurelius's gloom when his love was unrequited, and Avergus's respect and honor towards his wife when he found out her secret. Avergus's honor in keeping his word and holding his wife to her word as well is what saves their marriage: The direct result from his actions leads to the release of her obligation to Aurelius, as Aurelius is released from the magician. Whether this is meant to be a cautionary tale to the Prologue Squire is debatable. The fact that he is said to be "...as fresh as is the month of May" and the Franklin's Aurelius is said to be "fressher" leads to the likely result that the tale is told to teach the Squire a lesson (p5, 92, p217, 927). We can only hope that the squire learns a little from the sequence of events, and hopefully stays out of trouble with the ladies.
Sarah,
ReplyDeleteI can't help but wonder if "courtly lady" is used in the question you answered in the sense that Dorigen is the object of Aurelius's courtly love. If this is the case, I would have to argue that Dorigen's two roles as wife and courtly lady are at least somewhat in opposition to one another. While she initially foresakes her role in relation to Aurelius in order to preserve the fidelity of her marriage, she eventually puts her marriage in great peril by making her arrangement with Aurelius. In the end she has to make a choice between maintaining her fidelity to either her husband or Aurelius. In other words, she eventually has to choose between her role as a wife and her role as a courtly lady.
This is a response to Phil with some Sarah thrown in.
ReplyDeletePhil, I think your comments about class distinctions are interesting. "Gentillesse" stands out as heightened language from much of the rest of the text. Chaucer describes the squire in the General Prologue as being earthy rather than particularly lofty (his skills are mainly physical). I haven't read the Squire's Tale but the Franklin's seems to be a response to it. Building on Sarah's comments to me, I think the Franklin would like to raise the level of debate at least. Ideals are not simply meant for the most noble members of society, he might say, although the nobles seem to come out better in the end. Dorigen, Arveragus, Aurelius and the magician all display gentillesse, yet D&A end up with each other, Aurelius has a broken heart but no debts, and the magician gets nothing for his work. If lady/knight > squire > magician in social status, then you could argue that even though everyone can be gentil, the lowest classes end up paying the most for it.
Question 3- Consider the ways in which the Franklin’s Tale offers alternatives to a typical “courtly love” relationship. Compare the activity in the garden, and Aurelius in general, with the portrait of the Squire in the General Prologue. Does Chaucer’s vision coincide with traditional views of courtly love or of marriage? How does it differ? What specific passages?
ReplyDeleteIn a ‘typical’ courtly love, Dorigen would be willing to enter into a relationship with Aurelius, especially when her husband is gone. She would be married, but not to a man she loves. Dorigen would then fall in love with another and lament her inability to be with her true love. In this story Chaucer is showing the other side of courtly love; one where spouses love and trust each other and they value truth, honor, and their word above everything else. Instead of grieving over a lover she cannot have, Dorigen pines away endlessly while her husband is away. “She moorneth, waketh, wayleth, fasteth, pleyneth; Desyr of his presence hire so distryneth” (p215, lines819-20).Later, when Dorigen is compromised, she would rather kill herself then be unfaithful to her husband. Chaucer has introduced a completely new topic to the concept of courtly love, by switching the relationship between husband and wife.
On the other hand, Averilus is suffering a more customary courtly love. He pines away for two years over Dorigen without telling anyone. The Franklin tells in his strory that Aurelius, “Hadde loved her best of any creature, Two yeer and more, as was his aventure, but never dorste he telle hire his grevaunce” (p217, lines 939-41). Unrequitted love is a more common theme for courtly romance, yet at the same time it is what sets this story apart from others. In this instance Aurelius tells of his love to Dorigen and she sends him away, devoted to her husband.
One thing I notice is that in the Franklin’s Prologue he talks to the young squire pilgrim with praise. He is admirable of a young man with such honorable traits. The Franklin compares the squire with his own son and finds his son lacking. It seems as if the Franklin is using the squire pilgrim and his admirable traits as a frame of reference for the character Aurelius in his story. There are many commonalities between the two characters; both are described as very handsome, strong, and agile. Chaucer describes the young squire by saying, “he was as fresh as is the month of May” (p88, line 92). This fits perfectly with the description of the garden Aurelius is in with Dorigen where, “Which May had peynted with his softe showers, this garden full of leves and floures”(p217, line 907-08). The young squire pilgrim and Aurelius both are so torn by love that they do not sleep. The Franklins tale seems to be a message to the young squire about the dangers of courtly love, as well as a lesson in the value of living an honorable life.
Response to Phil and Tim on “gentilesse”?
ReplyDeleteI noticed that the word gentillesse first appears in the Introduction to the Franklin’s tale. The Franklin is comparing the young squire to his son and says, “And he hath levere talken with a page than to commune with any gentil wight where he mighte lerne gentillesse awight” (p 212, lines 692-94). In this instance the Franklin is speaking quite directly about the social classes. He may not be speaking of the nobility exactly, but he is looking for someone of an upper class for his son to associate with. How does this relate to his use of the word gentillesse in the Tale? Does the meaning change that much, or is the Franklin continuing a theme as he did between the two squires? I think the Franklin’s use of the word is like Bryan said; it is high language for the Franklin’s station in life. It is possible Chaucer is making fun of the new ‘middle class’ trying to bring themselves to a elevated station in life.
Heads up fellow peers: Wasn't able to post this the other day and sent it via email to Meg. I'm trying again today, Fri. May 14:
ReplyDelete(post/response)
Question #2: Is Dorigen’s marriage ideal? – Courtly lady and wife. Are these roles compatible?
Answer:
Dorigen’s marriage to Arviragus, indeed, seems ideal in spite of the setting of Chaucer’s time. They are in love, and neither wants to control the other nor expect servitude. When Arviragus is sent away to work and is absent for two years, Dorigen suffers what I would call a type of depression. In this instance, I would argue against ideal, for Dorigen’s dependency on her husband’s presence and affections (or lack of at this time) rendered her paranoid and obsessed with the black rocks that lined the shores. She imagines her husband’s ship – upon arriving – should hit one of them and her husband be fatally wounded. Dorigen’s obsession implies that she has difficulties living her life fully in her husband’s absence; thus, not quite ideal. The caring of Dorigen by the other women illustrates ladies in waiting on Dorigen, implying courtly status; another indication of Dorigen’s dependence.
The presence of Aurelius and subsequent admission of his love to Dorigen exhibits courtly qualities. Dorigen rebukes Aurelius, “Nevere erst,” quod she, “ne wiste I what ye mente/But now, Aurelie, I knowe youre entente/By thilke God that yaf me soule and lyf/Ne shal I nevere been untrewe wyf/In word ne werk , as fer as I have wit/I wol ben his to whom that I am knit/Tak this for fynal answere as of me.” (980-988.)
However, Dorigen informs Aurelius that she would be his love on the day the rocks are removed. “Aurelie,” quod she, “by heighe God above/Yet wolde I graunte yow to been youre love/Sin I yow see so pitously complayne/Loke what day that, endelong Britayne/Ye remoeve allthe rookes, stoon by stoon/That they no lette ship ne boot to goon/I seye, whan ye han maad the coost so clene/Of rokkes, that ther nis no stoon y-sene/Thanne wol I low yow best of any man/Have heer my trouthe, in all that evere I can.” (989-998.)
When Arviragus returns home, he finds out that Dorigen had (in play) made an offer to Aurelius, and Arviragus tells his wife to honor her offer. Aurelius’s affections for Dorigen, however, wins over his own desires and the offer is rescinded by him. Arviragus’ decision for his wife to fulfill her word to Aurelius does not define courtly gestures, but Aurelius’ decision to rescind his desire and honor his affections for Dorigen is a classic courtly response.
In response to Bryan: Very nice take. I had not explored the avenue in which you described the personification of courtly love through some actions with Aurelius; that he was dedicated (and quite tormented). In addition, I like what you said about courtly love being an illusion. I think you clarified this allusion from illusion. -- Diann (aka "SP") -- btw, have no idea where that came from. I know it took me several times around the bend to finally make it in here to post.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Mary's post, I like what you said about the connections between the Squire and Aurelius. I did not see that when I first read it. They do have similar qualities and the Franklin seems to idealize the noble expectations of knighthood. He is disappointed in his own son but is trying to encourage the Squire to meet those lofty goals he so admires.
ReplyDeleteHello eveyone,
ReplyDeleteThis looks like a very rich conversation! I have finished my conference and am in Chicago, getting ready to catch an evening flight back to Portland. I'll read through these and add to the discussion later this afternoon. Tracy sent me her comments as she had trouble posting a comment, so I will add those as well.
More soon--thanks for your great work here!
Meg
I think I have now opened up the comment feature so that you don't have to be signed in to any account. Just select "Anonymous" in the drop down box--but be sure to add your name. Let's see if this works.
ReplyDeleteMeg
I wrote a response paper to, ‘The Franklin’s Tale” and lost It, due to my lack of following protocol. I responded, to if I thought that Dorigen’s marriage is ideal. I do not think that she has the ideal marriage; on the contrary Franklin tells us that she has married out of pity. Franklin says, “But in the end she saw his worthiness and felt such pity for the pains he suffered, especially for the meek obedience offered, that privately she fell into accord and took him for her husband and her lord—the lordship husbands have on their wives”(409). This type of marriage is a courtly one and not one based on love, as far as we know. The love they have seems to be more of lust, rather than love of the heart. Yet she must have fallen in love after her marriage.
ReplyDeleteTheir marriage, at first, was what Franklin Calls blissful, until Arveragus takes off to fulfill his knightly duties. Franklin says, “A year of more they live their blissful life until it chanced the knight that I have thus described and who was called Arveragus of Caer-rhud, planned to spend a year or so in Britain (no, not Brittany), to go in honour; that was all his inclination. He stayed two years, at least the book says thus” (411). This tells us, that he is to go because of his obligation as a knight. When Dorigen married Arvergus, she would have known that he would be going off to fight at some point in time. Being that he was a knight and knights must do what knights do. So she then grieves over him being gone, and on top of it he is gone longer than he plans. It would seem to be normal to miss him, and grieve over his absence, yet she goes dancing and takes off with another man all alone. I she had the ideal marriage, you would think that for Arveragus’s sake she would hang out with the girls only.
The last point I would like to make is, the part about Dorigen making a promise that she did not expect to keep. It seems that keeping that promise is what I would say is the least part about an ideal marriage, for the fact that her own husband agrees that she should keep this promise. Franklin tells us; “Her husband, gladly smiling, with no fuss, but with a friendly look, made answer thus: ‘and is there nothing, Dorinen, but this?’… ‘it’s better not to touch a sleeping dog, so I have often heard; All may be well, but you must keep our word(429). This tells us, more than she must act in a courtly manner and keep her word. Her husband has just given her permission to commit adultery; this does not seem like the ideal marriage, where two people are committed to each other only. Franklin uses both sides of this marriage, as a way to subtly show the reader that this marriage is not the perfect or ideal marriage. This was written by Connie
Discuss the inter-textual discussion of love and marriage in the Canterbury Tales. Compare the Wife of Bath’s Tale with the Franklin’s Tale on the subject of marriage. What are the different messages each tale gives?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that Chaucer has a complex approach and message within the entirety of The Canterbury Tales in regards to marriage. Within the Wife of Bath’s tale Chaucer manages to convey the message of a man’s sovereignty (or choice to allow sovereignty) to a woman within marriage. Yet this ideal comes about only through horrid actions of rape ( by the Knight) and manipulation through the old woman. I also found this same theme within The Franklin’s tale in many ways, yet the delivery and nature of the relationship was a starch contrast. In the Franklin’s tale the marriage relationship seems to be of a true and devout nature, while manipulation of the squire seems to want to destroy this “ideal” relationship. Yet the idea of sovereignty to the woman seems to be prevalent in both tales. It seems that in these tales the man has the ultimate choice to be made. The Knight must choose to give sovereignty to the old woman to obtain his ideal relationship, and in the Franklin’s tale the husband makes the choice to allow her to follow her word in order to get her back in the end. The squire also makes the choice to release her from her oath. Dorigen would must rather choose death than cheat on her husband, yet her husband makes her choice to keep her word for her. “For God so wisly have mercy on me,/ I hadde wel levere y-stiked for to be,/ For verray love which that I to yow have,/ But if ye shoulde youre trouthe kepe and save./ Trouthe is the hyeste thing that man may kepe.” (229) Here it is clear that it is his choice for her to keep her word, mainly due to his honor, not hers directly. I feel that although Chaucer may be speaking to an ideal that marriage should be a partnership, yet the choice of partnership being equal seems to lie with the male’s choice.
--Tracy
I am replying to Sara' post
ReplyDelete"Dorigen’s marriage is also perfect for her. Her husband loves her, and makes a promise to honor her and treat her like an equal. This takes me back to the Wife of Bath’s tale, of which the moral was to allow the wife control of authority. This alone makes her marriage better than most. Not only is the promise made, but it is made honestly as we see when Averagus allow his wife to complete her promise to Aurelius. His promise to “obeye and folwe hir wil in al” nearly kills him, but he fulfills it anyway. Not only is Dorigen’s marriage ideal, but her role as courtly lady and wife are complete with her love for Averagus. She was made for both roles in her time, and she fulfills her promise to be his “humble trewe wyf,” of which is her chief concern throughout the story till the end of her life (p214, 758). "
I believe in many ways that you are right in regards to Doriegn's role within the Franklins tale. She seems to fit within this lifestyle very well, and represent her role and loving and courtly wife and woman. The way she mourns her husbands absence seems to show her dedication to not only her husband, but to her role as wife. I also feel that the manner in which she wished to take her own life, rather than cheat on or dishonor her husband shows her courtly honesty and respect for herself and her husband. I have to admit that in this tale I found the idea of courtly love much more ideal and prominent than in many of the previous tales. This was about choice and dedication out of true and sincere love. I feel that she fit this role to a tee, and also her husband. Together they seemed to make the perfect medieval couple!
Tracy Rumsey
Is Dorigern's marriage ideal? (written by Natasha Keyser)
ReplyDeleteNo marriage is ideal, but when there is constant separation, that idealism becomes even less of a possibility. While this marriage begins with one person seemingly loving the other more (her knight-husband was taken with her from the start), she seems as time goes on to love him just as much as he loves her. This is more than many couples of high standing were ever given during Chaucer's time, as arranged marriage were the rule, and not the exception, especially among the gentry. What makes Dorigern's marriage less than ideal is not her husband, who is an honourable man, but the amount of time that she must spend alone, pining for him. Being a courtly lady and a wife are not inseparable entities. They are both part and parcel of who she is. This doesn't make her marriage any more or any less ideal than a marriage would be between two peasants who might have married for love, but it does seem to make it more complex. She must bear herself not only as a wife, but also a befitting of a lady of her station. Anyone who is married must reconcile the many parts of themselves into a person who is capable of being one half of a an entirely new whole.
In response to Tracy's post-
ReplyDeleteI think that you've really hit on an important point in discussing the male role in the lives of their wives. Upon reading the Franklin's tale, I was so caught up in the end question- of who was the more chivalrous man, the squire or the knight (and I really couldn't see how there was even a debate here! I mean... the squire began his "courtship" with deceit in mind, regardless of the outcome) that your point about male sovereignty itself was a far larger theme. You are incredibly right, though. In both the Franklin's Tale, as well as the Wife of Bath's Tale both are truly about the way in which men have the ultimate control over the fate of women. Thank you for your insight. It was fantastic and informative!!